--- title: The Change the Game Podcast | business strategy description: business strategy | The Change the Game Podcast for The Great Game of Business --- [![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2020/Home/GGOB%20logo%20(1).png) ](https://www.greatgame.com/) - What Do We Do? ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [What We Do](https://www.greatgame.com/what-is-great-game-business) - [Who We Are](https://www.greatgame.com/about-great-game-business) - [Our Process](https://www.greatgame.com/about/our-process) - [Meet The Team](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-team) - [Why Choose Great Game?](https://www.greatgame.com/why-choose-great-game) - Resources ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Free Tools](https://www.greatgame.com/diy-resources) - [Great Game GO](https://www.greatgame.com/community) - [Blog](https://www.greatgame.com/blog) - [Podcast](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast) - [Bonus Plan Design](https://www.greatgame.com/bonus-plan-design) - [Books](https://www.greatgame.com/books/3books) - [Videos](https://www.greatgame.com/videos) - [Testimonials and Case Studies](https://www.greatgame.com/case-studies/industry-display) - Events ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Great Game® Conference](https://www.greatgame.com/conference-2026) - [Discover the Game: Free Intro](https://www.greatgame.com/introductory-workshop) - [Great Game® Experience Workshop](https://www.greatgame.com/great-game-experience-workshop) - [Leading the Game Cohort](https://www.greatgame.com/leading-the-game) - [See All Events](https://www.greatgame.com/event-dates) - Coaching ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Get A Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/coaching) - [Meet the Coaches](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-coaches) - [Training](https://www.greatgame.com/trainings) ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/HamMenuBlack.png) ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/CloseButton.png) - What Do We Do? ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [What We Do](https://www.greatgame.com/what-is-great-game-business) - [Who We Are](https://www.greatgame.com/about-great-game-business) - [Our Process](https://www.greatgame.com/about/our-process) - [Meet The Team](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-team) - [Why Choose Great Game?](https://www.greatgame.com/why-choose-great-game) - Resources ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Free Tools](https://www.greatgame.com/diy-resources) - [Great Game GO](https://www.greatgame.com/community) - [Blog](https://www.greatgame.com/blog) - [Podcast](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast) - [Bonus Plan Design](https://www.greatgame.com/bonus-plan-design) - [Books](https://www.greatgame.com/books/3books) - [Videos](https://www.greatgame.com/videos) - [Testimonials and Case Studies](https://www.greatgame.com/case-studies/industry-display) - Events ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Great Game® Conference](https://www.greatgame.com/conference-2026) - [Discover the Game: Free Intro](https://www.greatgame.com/introductory-workshop) - [Great Game® Experience Workshop](https://www.greatgame.com/great-game-experience-workshop) - [Leading the Game Cohort](https://www.greatgame.com/leading-the-game) - [See All Events](https://www.greatgame.com/event-dates) - Coaching ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Get A Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/coaching) - [Meet the Coaches](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-coaches) - [Training ](https://www.greatgame.com/trainings) - [Community Membership](https://www.greatgame.com/membership-purchase) - [Store](https://ggob.myshopify.com/) - [FAQ](https://www.greatgame.com/faqs) - [Become a Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/internal-coach) - [Have Us Speak at Your Event](https://www.greatgame.com/ggobspeakers) - [Trusted Partners](https://www.greatgame.com/trusted-partners) - [Search](https://www.greatgame.com/site-search) ## **![GGOB + 21 Hats-1](https://www.greatgame.com/hs-fs/hubfs/GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png?width=250&height=81&name=GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png) **   ## **About Our Podcasts** Podcasts for entrepreneurs, business owners, and leaders. These messages are brought to you directly from CEOs and business thinkers to help build healthier companies, better businesses, and better lives for both you and your employees.   ## [Can We All Be Purple Cows?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/can-we-all-be-purple-cows) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   ***Introduction:*** This week, Shawn Busse, Jaci Russo, and Jay Goltz discuss what it takes to stand out these days, especially if your business—like most businesses—isn’t exactly the Next Big Thing. What about trash collection? What if your business is selling scrap metal? What if you happen to be one of 69 picture framers in Chicago? What’s an owner to do to stand out then? Is it enough to execute really well? Can any business make itself remarkable? Shawn, Jay, and Jaci all believe it’s possible, and they offer examples from their own businesses as well as those they’ve observed. Plus: As Google waffles about whether it’s going to kill cookies on Chrome, will business owners still be able to target customers digitally? And Jay’s not happy about a very big bill he got from his accounting firm. Should he just go ahead and pay it? **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [Whose Advice Are You Going to Take?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/whose-advice-are-you-going-to-take) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   ***Introduction:*** This week, Paul Downs, Mel Gravely, and Sarah Segal talk about the tricky calculation all entrepreneurs must make between sticking to their vision and accepting advice. Sarah explains why she is reluctant to take advice from people who don’t really know the inner workings of her business, which is pretty much everyone. Paul, on the other hand, says taking advice from outsiders helped save his business during the Great Recession. And Mel talks about why he thinks every business should have a board of advisors—and why he thinks having a board would have saved him from a big mistake he made recently. But then, Paul asks, if you do have a board, can you *not* take its advice? Plus: Reacting to a recent post on Reddit, the owners discuss the right way to wind down a failing business, a process with which Mel and Paul have some familiarity. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [This Is Not How This Ends](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/this-is-not-how-this-ends) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   ***Introduction:*** This week, we bring you what we’re calling an Entrepreneurial Fish Bowl with Chris Hutchinson. As you may remember, we recorded one of these at our 21 Hats Live event in Fort Worth, where I shared some of my challenges trying to build 21 Hats and got feedback from the group. We recorded that conversation and turned it into a podcast episode. This time, we’re doing the same thing except it will be Jaime Echt, founder and CEO of The Crafters Workshop, who is going to explain her challenges to a virtual group of 21 Hats entrepreneurs. As you’ll hear, Jaime’s challenges are real: Her sales are down. Her customers are aging. Her lease is up. And she’s not sure what she should do next. We’re going to see if a group of 21 Hats Founding Members can offer some support and advice. **— Loren Feldman** ***  *** ## [Twelve Hours a Day, Six Days a Week](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode127) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg) ***Introduction:*** This week, we meet Jennifer Kerhin, the newest addition to the 21 Hats Podcast team. Jennifer’s business, SB Expos and Events, is an event-management business that survived the shut down in 2020 and has grown to more than $3 million a year in revenue. When COVID first hit, Jennifer tells Jay Goltz she really thought it would put her out of business; in the end, she says, it made her stronger. Even so, she is very much stuck working in her business, while looking for ways to extract herself from day-to-day tasks someone else could handle. But how do you free yourself up enough so that you have the time to put the people and systems in place that you know you need? And how long should that take? “I hate to tell you,” says Jay, “it took me 10 years. But I’m going to help you here, so it’s going to take you 10 months.” **— Loren Feldman** ## [‘Being Isolated Is Just a Bad Idea’](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode126) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg) ***Introduction:*** This week, Hans Schrei and Shawn Busse talk about why they put their businesses through accelerators, and Paul Downs explains why he might have done the same thing if accelerators had existed back when he started his business—”although,” he says, “I was probably too dumb to realize the value of it.” Hans, who just completed a 13-week accelerator program with his partner, Luis, also tells us how Wunderkeks fared while he and Luis were in the program, what they got out of it, and why they felt it was worth giving up the equity that was the price of admission. Plus: why Shawn went to an employee’s college graduation and how Paul managed to take a vacation. Oh, and Paul also talks about what surprised him about the recent 21 Hats event in Chicago. **— Loren Feldman** ## ['What Doesn't Keep Me Up at Night?'](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode125) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg) ***Introduction:*** This week, we did something different. We recorded this session in Chicago at our very first 21 Hats in-person event. In May, some 20 impressive entrepreneurs from around the country, from different industries, with businesses of different sizes and stages, gathered to talk shop for three days. The last thing we did was to record this episode in which we gave the participants the opportunity to ask the podcast regulars anything they wanted. Those regulars included Jay Goltz, Sarah Segal, and Dana White, and the questions addressed everything from hiring to motivating to delegating to pricing to coping with stress to what they wished they’d figured out sooner and to what still keeps them up at night. And when there were no more questions, I asked those who attended the Chicago event what I could have done to make it better. That I would invite criticism in a conversation being recorded for a podcast audience, took some of the participants by surprise. But, as you’ll hear, it worked out pretty much the way I hoped. **— Loren Feldman** ### [Marketing Workshop - February 23, 2023](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode111) ## [Selling Cookies on LinkedIn](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode111) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   ***Introduction:*** This week, Shawn Busse and Loren Feldman are doing something a little different. This is the first in a series of episodes we’re calling Marketing Workshops. In an attempt to confront one of the biggest pain points business owners face, we’re offering a series of conversations with owner-operators about their marketing experiences: what’s worked and what hasn’t. We’re starting with Grayson Hogard, co-founder of [Grove Cookie Company](https://www.grovecookiecompany.com/). For Grayson and his wife, Marie, the company is a bootstrapped side hustle, but in a very short time they’ve come to some very smart conclusions about their marketing that might seem counterintuitive at first. Most importantly, they’ve figured out that the most effective sales channel for their cookies is, of all places, LinkedIn. **— Loren Feldman**   ## [Walking Away From A Salary](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/episode110) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)     ***Introduction:*** This week, Sarah Segal tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz why she’s decided to take her public relations business back after selling it two years ago to a larger firm so it could handle the back-end stuff and allow her to focus on public relations. For Sarah, the immediate result of the decision to break away has been an exhausting few months starting over, including reincorporating, finding health insurance, and reducing her own pay. Meanwhile, Jay suggests an old-school marketing tactic that involves leveraging an envelope, a stamp, and the post office. And Shawn explains how he created a sales process that has allowed him to remove himself from day-to-day sales. Plus, a listener asks the three owners, “When do you know if you’ve made it? Or do you never know?” Shawn, Jay, and Sarah—three owners at very different stages of building a business—offer three very different answers. **— Loren Feldman**   [All posts](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/all) ## About The Podcast ![GGOB + 21 Hats-1](https://www.greatgame.com/hs-fs/hubfs/GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png?width=400&height=129&name=GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png) The Great Game of Business has partnered with [21 Hats](https://21hats.com/) to bring the 21 Hats Podcast to all entrepreneurs in The Great Game of Business community! Hosted by Loren Feldman, this podcast offers real-world business insight. Tune in to stay up to date on today's business issues, hear real stories about organizational challenges leaders are facing, and take away strategies CEOs are using in the business world today. When you subscribe, you'll receive a weekly email notification of this podcast. Plus, receive a message any time a new podcast episode is published on The Great Game of Business "Change the Game Podcast."   **Subscribe to Get notified about new episodes from 21 Hats and the Change the Game Podcasts!** [![GGOB Logo Footer](https://www.greatgame.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Templates-2018/Home/temp/GGOB_Logo_Footer.png?width=465&name=GGOB_Logo_Footer.png "GGOB Logo Footer")](https://www.greatgame.com/) [Terms of Use](https://www.greatgame.com/terms) | [Privacy Policy](https://www.greatgame.com/privacy-policy)  Cookie Settings All trademarks, trade names or logos mentioned or used herein are the property of their respective owners.  Reference to any product or service by manufacturer, trade name, trademark or otherwise does not reflect any affiliation with the manufacturer or its endorsement of the products or services.  |  COPYRIGHT © 2026 THE GREAT GAME OF BUSINESS, INC.  All rights reserved. For over 40 years, The Great Game of Business™ has helped organizations reach their highest potential and value. Tapping into the universal human need to win, GGOB educates your people in the rules of business, rallies them around a common goal, empowers them to see and improve the score, and engages them by giving them a stake in the outcome. #### Quick Links #### The Great Game of Business 2401 E. Sunshine St. Springfield, MO 65804 [800.386.2752](tel:18003862752) [info@ggob.com](mailto:info@ggob.com) [**](https://www.facebook.com/greatgameofbusiness/) [**](https://twitter.com/Gr8GameBusiness) [**](https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-great-game-of-business/) [**](https://www.youtube.com/user/GreatGameofBusiness) [**](https://www.instagram.com/thegreatgameofbusiness/) ![](https://www.facebook.com/tr?id=263477480705198&ev=PageView&noscript=1) ![](https://px.ads.linkedin.com/collect/?pid=2040065&fmt=gif)