--- title: The Change the Game Podcast | Loren Feldman (3) description: "Loren is chief content officer of 21 Hats, a community of business owners that's coming soon. He co-hosts a call-in show for business owners, Mind Your Business, on Sirius XM 132 and edits a daily newsletter for entrepreneurs: getthemorningreport.com. In his previous job, he was a senior editor at Forbes, where he created the Forbes Small Giants franchise and was responsible for entrepreneurial coverage in print and online. Before that, he was small-business editor of The New York Times, where he started the You’re the Boss small-business blog. He has also been editor of the Web sites at both Inc. and FastCompany. Before going digital, he was a top editor and writer for print magazines such as Inc., Philadelphia, Manhattan,inc., the American Lawyer, Money, and George. He has also written for GQ, The New York Times magazine and The New York Times Sunday Business section. And he has spoken and moderated discussions at numerous conferences and seminars on entrepreneurship. (3)" --- [![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2020/Home/GGOB%20logo%20(1).png) ](https://www.greatgame.com/) - What Do We Do? ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [What We Do](https://www.greatgame.com/what-is-great-game-business) - [Who We Are](https://www.greatgame.com/about-great-game-business) - [Our Process](https://www.greatgame.com/about/our-process) - [Meet The Team](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-team) - [Why Choose Great Game?](https://www.greatgame.com/why-choose-great-game) - Resources ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Free Tools](https://www.greatgame.com/diy-resources) - [Great Game GO](https://www.greatgame.com/community) - [Blog](https://www.greatgame.com/blog) - [Podcast](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast) - [Bonus Plan Design](https://www.greatgame.com/bonus-plan-design) - [Books](https://www.greatgame.com/books/3books) - [Videos](https://www.greatgame.com/videos) - [Testimonials and Case Studies](https://www.greatgame.com/case-studies/industry-display) - Events ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Great Game® Conference](https://www.greatgame.com/conference-2026) - [Discover the Game: Free Intro](https://www.greatgame.com/introductory-workshop) - [Great Game® Experience Workshop](https://www.greatgame.com/great-game-experience-workshop) - [Leading the Game Cohort](https://www.greatgame.com/leading-the-game) - [See All Events](https://www.greatgame.com/event-dates) - Coaching ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Get A Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/coaching) - [Meet the Coaches](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-coaches) - [Training](https://www.greatgame.com/trainings) ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/HamMenuBlack.png) ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/CloseButton.png) - What Do We Do? ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [What We Do](https://www.greatgame.com/what-is-great-game-business) - [Who We Are](https://www.greatgame.com/about-great-game-business) - [Our Process](https://www.greatgame.com/about/our-process) - [Meet The Team](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-team) - [Why Choose Great Game?](https://www.greatgame.com/why-choose-great-game) - Resources ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Free Tools](https://www.greatgame.com/diy-resources) - [Great Game GO](https://www.greatgame.com/community) - [Blog](https://www.greatgame.com/blog) - [Podcast](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast) - [Bonus Plan Design](https://www.greatgame.com/bonus-plan-design) - [Books](https://www.greatgame.com/books/3books) - [Videos](https://www.greatgame.com/videos) - [Testimonials and Case Studies](https://www.greatgame.com/case-studies/industry-display) - Events ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Great Game® Conference](https://www.greatgame.com/conference-2026) - [Discover the Game: Free Intro](https://www.greatgame.com/introductory-workshop) - [Great Game® Experience Workshop](https://www.greatgame.com/great-game-experience-workshop) - [Leading the Game Cohort](https://www.greatgame.com/leading-the-game) - [See All Events](https://www.greatgame.com/event-dates) - Coaching ![](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/Templates-2021/DownArrowBlueLarger.svg) - [Get A Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/coaching) - [Meet the Coaches](https://www.greatgame.com/meet-the-coaches) - [Training ](https://www.greatgame.com/trainings) - [Community Membership](https://www.greatgame.com/membership-purchase) - [Store](https://ggob.myshopify.com/) - [FAQ](https://www.greatgame.com/faqs) - [Become a Coach](https://www.greatgame.com/internal-coach) - [Have Us Speak at Your Event](https://www.greatgame.com/ggobspeakers) - [Trusted Partners](https://www.greatgame.com/trusted-partners) - [Search](https://www.greatgame.com/site-search) ## **![GGOB + 21 Hats-1](https://www.greatgame.com/hs-fs/hubfs/GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png?width=250&height=81&name=GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png) **   ## **About Our Podcasts** Podcasts for entrepreneurs, business owners, and leaders. These messages are brought to you directly from CEOs and business thinkers to help build healthier companies, better businesses, and better lives for both you and your employees.   ## Loren Feldman ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg) Loren is chief content officer of 21 Hats, a community of business owners that's coming soon. He co-hosts a call-in show for business owners, Mind Your Business, on Sirius XM 132 and edits a daily newsletter for entrepreneurs: getthemorningreport.com. In his previous job, he was a senior editor at Forbes, where he created the Forbes Small Giants franchise and was responsible for entrepreneurial coverage in print and online. Before that, he was small-business editor of The New York Times, where he started the You’re the Boss small-business blog. He has also been editor of the Web sites at both Inc. and FastCompany. Before going digital, he was a top editor and writer for print magazines such as Inc., Philadelphia, Manhattan,inc., the American Lawyer, Money, and George. He has also written for GQ, The New York Times magazine and The New York Times Sunday Business section. And he has spoken and moderated discussions at numerous conferences and seminars on entrepreneurship. ### Recent Posts ## [Why Would You Want to Own a Business?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/why-would-you-want-to-own-a-business) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and Jennifer Kerhin respond to a somewhat depressing view of business ownership offered by an investor who buys businesses for a living. That view, essentially, is that for most owners, building a business is a daily knife fight of long hours, unexpected risks, slow growth, and meager returns. In this episode, I read most of the investor’s observations to Shawn, Jay, and Jennifer, and get their reactions, which hit upon a bunch of issues that are not widely understood—including how fast growth can destroy a business, how even a profitable company can go bust, and why a good metric to assess the health of a small business might be how many people have been crying in the bathroom this year. While Shawn, Jay, and Jennifer disagree vehemently with a few of the investor’s assertions—”Kiss my ass!” says Jay in response to one—they do acknowledge that he makes a lot of good points, which leads to an obvious question: Why would anyone do this? Why would anyone subject themselves to this kind of life? As you might expect, Shawn, Jennifer, and Jay have a response to that as well. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [Have We Been Too Generous With Employees?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/have-we-been-too-generous-with-employees) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Mel Gravely, Jaci Russo, and William Vanderbloemen talk about the possibility that, after several years of the Great Resignation and the labor shortage, some owners may have given away the store. We all know the risks of not offering employees enough. What are the risks of offering too much? How do you even know when you’ve crossed the line? The owners also discuss why this might be a good time to consider acquiring other businesses. “I think this is a time to double-down,” says Mel. And Jaci explains how she and her team are reviewing everything the company does to see if AI can be employed to improve each and every process. Oh, and one last thing: How exactly, in this day and age, are business owners supposed to keep track of all of the subscriptions—and all of the subscription log-ins—that they and their employees have acquired through the years? How much money are they spending on stuff they no longer use? “Thanks a lot,” responds Mel. “I’m starting to sweat.” **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [We’re Making Good Money. I’m Not Sure How.](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/were-making-good-money.-im-not-sure-how) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Jay Goltz, Jennifer Kerhin, and Liz Picarazzi discuss their efforts to get a better grasp of what drives their profits. They ask how much of their finances they should manage themselves. And how much should they rely on an accountant or a fractional CFO? When does delegation become abdication? Jennifer says she’s benefitted from hiring a fractional CFO who has taken an active leadership role, including setting up a database that helps Jennifer see in real time whether the fees she’s charging cover the labor she’s deploying. “Whatever she’s charging me,” says Jennifer of her CFO, “it’s absolutely worth it.” Liz, meanwhile, thinks she should be doing more herself. And Jay says he was paying big bucks for a full-time CFO until late last year. “And it was a complete waste of money,” he says, which is why he’s decided not to replace her. Plus: Liz reveals her secret strategy for marketing directly to municipal government officials, some of whom have started to use the term “Citibin” generically. And the owners respond to a question from the head of a cost-reduction service who wonders why she’s struggling so much to get business owners to try her risk-free service. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [The Worker Co-Op Solution](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/the-worker-co-op-solution) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** In this week’s bonus episode, Cameron Madill takes us on his succession journey, which began years ago when he started having conversations with older business owners, many of whom seemed to feel trapped. They’d had a lot of success, they were proud of the business they’d built, but they weren’t sure what to do with it or how to leave it. None of the usual options seemed terribly appealing. Hoping to write a different ending, Madill, now in his 40s, started looking for better options much earlier than most owners, and the one he landed on was an unusual choice: a worker cooperative. Now, there are aspects of this model that are likely to give some owners pause. For one, a co-op probably isn’t going to produce the biggest payday for a selling owner. And if the owner wants to stick around as CEO, he or she will have to report to a board, and that board can challenge any and all of the owner’s decisions. But Madill, as he explains in a conversation we recorded late last year, before he stepped down from his role as CEO, decided to sell to his employees anyway. Not only is he glad he did, he thinks co-ops are an option far more owners, especially those struggling to find a buyer, should consider. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [New Year’s Resolution? Make. Some. Money.](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/new-years-resolution-make.-some.-money) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Laura Zander talk about why 2023 was so challenging for them and what they plan to do differently in 2024. “Last year was a year when I knew I was going to be making a bunch of investments and didn’t expect to show much or any of a profit,” says Paul. “And I absolutely nailed that goal.” Shawn, meanwhile, thinks his new marketing scheme is working, and Laura is addressing her issues by going shopping — shopping, that is,  for businesses. She’s now bought a total of six, and she offers a step-by-step guide to how even a relatively small business can grow through acquisition, including what she’s looking for (mostly companies in distress), how she sets a price (she aims to recoup her cash outlay pretty quickly), how she finances the deals (not with a bank!), and how she integrates her old and new operations (that can be a bear). **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [This Is What It Takes to Build a Business, Vol. 2](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/this-is-what-it-takes-to-build-a-business-vol.-2) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, we take a look back at the conversations we had last year about the many rewards and responsibilities of business ownership, highlighting some of our happiest, smartest, funniest, and most difficult exchanges from the past year. Along the way, we discuss topics such as escalating salary demands, how much profit a business should make, a new way to sell a business, the problems with ESOPs, how to sell cookies on LinkedIn, breaking a million dollars in annual revenue, escaping the valley of death, and the pain of having to fire a long-time employee.  There aren’t many places where you can hear entrepreneurs talk about the real-life problems they are confronting right now, today, as they happen—with no guarantee of a happy ending. But those are the conversations I have every week with Paul Downs of [Paul Downs Cabinetmakers](https://www.custom-conference-tables.com/), Shawn Busse of [Kinesis](https://www.kinesisinc.com/), Jay Goltz of [Artists Frame Service](https://www.artistsframe.com/), Mel Gravely of [Triversity Construction](https://www.trivc.com/), Jennifer Kerhin of [SB Expos & Events](https://discoversb.com/), Liz Picarazzi of [Citibin](https://citibin.com/), Jaci Russo of [BrandRusso](https://brandrusso.com/), Sarah Segal of [Segal Communications](https://segalcommunications.com/), William Vanderbloemen of [Vanderbloemen Search Group](https://www.vanderbloemen.com/), Dana White of a soon-to-be-named successor to [Paralee Boyd](https://www.paraleeboyd.com/), and Laura Zander of [Jimmy Beans Wool](https://www.jimmybeanswool.com/?). In this episode, we also highlight several appearances by special guests who stopped by in 2023 to discuss their journeys, including Muhammad Abdul-Hadi of [Down North Pizza](https://www.downnorthpizza.com/), Jeff Braverman of [Nuts.com](https://nuts.com/), Michael Brown of [Teamshares](https://www.teamshares.com/), Brad Herrmann of [Text-Em-All](https://www.text-em-all.com/), Grayson Hogard of [Grove Cookie Company](https://www.grovecookiecompany.com/), Lance Tyson of the [Tyson Group](https://www.tysongroup.com/), and Ari Weinzweig of [Zingerman’s](https://www.zingermanscommunity.com/about-us/). If listening to one of these highlights makes you want to go back and listen to the full episode, that can be done most easily by going to [21hats.com](https://21hats.com/). There you’ll find a transcript of this episode with links to all of the episodes we sample. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [The Unlikely Plan That Launched Down North Pizza](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/the-unlikely-plan-that-launched-down-north-pizza) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** So here was Muhammad Abdul-Hadi’s idea for a pizza joint: First, buy a building in one of the most troubled neighborhoods in one of the poorest big cities in the country. Open a restaurant despite having no experience in the food industry and do it during the pandemic when many restaurants are failing. And hire only people who, like Abdul-Hadi, are convicted felons. If that business plan sounds a little dicey to you, rest assured you would not be the first to suggest that to Abdul-Hadi. But he did it anyway. He built out the restaurant, and it opened in 2020 to lines that required people to wait as long as three hours for their pizza—thanks in part to a marketing plan that created excitement and scarcity by “dropping” pizzas the way some people “drop” special-edition sneakers. And now, [Down North Pizza](https://www.downnorthpizza.com/), which has been featured on best-of lists in national publications like *Bon Appetit* and *The New York Times*, is looking to expand. A special, year-end bonus episode. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [What Are Your Goals for 2024?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/what-are-your-goals-for-2024) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Shawn Busse, Liz Picarazzi, and Jaci Russo discuss what they learned in 2023 and what they expect from 2024. After a tough year, Shawn is optimistic that his clients, having survived the turbulence of the past few years, are ready to spend money and try something different. Liz explains why she’s been willing to discount her products as much as 40 percent on Cyber Mondays and tells us about some new products she has in the works. Early in the year, Jaci, thinking she was going to have to staff up to handle two big new clients, dove into remodeling her offices—but those big clients have yet to sign on. “I might have jumped the gun a little bit,” says Jaci. Plus: Liz talks about her Midwestern mom, who can’t understand how Liz can charge so much for her trash enclosures. And Shawn raises the issue of how much money business owners should spend on marketing. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [We Need to Go Back to Marketing for Humans](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/we-need-to-go-back-to-marketing-for-humans) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   **Introduction:** This week, Paul Downs tells Jay Goltz and Jaci Russo about the latest developments in his year-long campaign to stop relying so heavily on Google AdWords. At a specially arranged, two-day marketing event, Paul got to sit down with a series of architects and designers who had already been vetted and who he hopes will become repeat customers. So far, Paul says, the results look promising. Plus, we also discuss: Do you write your website copy to please Google or to please people? Is there any way around skyrocketing property insurance rates? Why has Jay decided he no longer needs a chief financial officer? How big a disadvantage to owners are the new laws forbidding employers from asking job candidates about their salary histories? And would you reject a candidate simply for trying to negotiate a starting salary? I know someone who would. **— Loren Feldman** *** *** ## [Are Salespeople Built or Born?](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/are-salespeople-built-or-born) ![Loren Feldman](https://www.greatgame.com/hubfs/LF.jpg)   ***Introduction:*** It used to be that best practices in sales were pretty standard across the board. But since the pandemic and with the advent of artificial intelligence, says Lance Tyson, founder of the [Tyson Group](https://www.tysongroup.com/) sales consultancy, it’s like the Wild West out there. Suddenly, everyone’s playing by different rules, and the best sales approach can vary, depending on the seller, the target, the industry, the region of the country. The keys, Tyson says in this week’s bonus episode, are to pay attention and stay flexible. Along the way, he also addresses a host of hot topics: How important is it to see a prospect face-to-face? Is cold-calling dead? Will A.I. replace sales trainers? What’s the right balance between base and commission? How do you handle the salesperson who can’t or won’t be a team player? How do you get salespeople to take maintaining their CRM seriously? **— Loren Feldman** *** *** [Previous](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/author/loren-feldman/page/2) [All posts](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/all) [Next](https://www.greatgame.com/podcast/author/loren-feldman/page/4) ## About The Podcast ![GGOB + 21 Hats-1](https://www.greatgame.com/hs-fs/hubfs/GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png?width=400&height=129&name=GGOB%20+%2021%20Hats-1.png) The Great Game of Business has partnered with [21 Hats](https://21hats.com/) to bring the 21 Hats Podcast to all entrepreneurs in The Great Game of Business community! Hosted by Loren Feldman, this podcast offers real-world business insight. Tune in to stay up to date on today's business issues, hear real stories about organizational challenges leaders are facing, and take away strategies CEOs are using in the business world today. When you subscribe, you'll receive a weekly email notification of this podcast. 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